Record-Eagle Blogs - Latest Comments in Purgatory

Re: Purgatory

Ed Hahnenberg — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:44:45 -0000

Ed ... I hate to turn all-Scriptural on the issue, but Christ did say a kind of fearful thing in Matthew and Luke: From Matthew 7:13-14: "Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the road broad that leads to destruction, and those who enter through it are many. How narrow the gate and constricted the road that leads to life. And those who find it are few."

If you are adverse to dogmatic statements, you still make a great point in your statement: "I would rather serve God because I know He loves me than from a fear of hell."

Another great point of yours: "When we understand the depths of God's love for all humankind, we can rest fully and assuredly in that love..."

However, that is the crux of the issue. We cannot understand fully God's love for all humankind...at least in this life. It certainly is far greater than we think we know...but just how far infinite love goes bumps into free will...the only barrier to infinite Love.

Re: Purgatory

edburley — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 08:08:12 -0000

I would rather serve God because I know He loves me than from a fear of hell. Some folks have said to me that if people don't believe in hell, they'll live any way they desire. Personally, I believe that far too many Christians who believe in hell live more in fear than in faith; and those who aren't Christian have a "what's the use?" attitude - like they could never avoid it...

My opinion, dogma or otherwise, is that the belief in hell breeds the very opposite thing than what is desired. When we understand the depths of God's love for all humankind, we can rest fully and assuredly in that love - no more fear of death, only a proper reverence for our Creator.

Re: Purgatory

Ed Hahnenberg — Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:49:16 -0000

Ed...It is strange that St. Gregory of Nyssa taught universalism. Origen wound up on the list of heretics by the Church. However, as you no doubt know, the teaching of the RC Church holds as dogma the concept of Hell as eternal. Evangelicals certainly do.

A wise RC bishop I knew told me once: "There is a hell, but we don't know how many are there." From the accounts of those saints who have seen Hell and the accounts of those with NDEs, it would seem that there is a Hell, but obviously those experiences are not definitive.

It seems to me that one would have to reject God totally, uniquivically, and knowingly to slide the slippery slope there.

As to early universalists, a number of them made an exception for Lucifer, whom they consider to be there permanently.

How much humans can understand of eternal damnation is open to question, what with our limited time on earth; yet free will has its consequences. I'd rather be safe than sorry.

Re: Purgatory

edburley — Sat, 24 Oct 2009 16:16:30 -0000

Ed,
Gregory and Origen taught universal reconciliation. After Augustine's influence brought Hell to the forefront of the discussion, the Alexandrian Fathers were used as apologists for "Purgatory" which was actually their view of what hell was.

In that regard, I agree with the existence of purgatory; for it is the place where ALL souls, except those who have fully trusted in Christ, go to be purged of their sins.

That I can buy...endless torment, not so much.

Thanks for writing. It gives us opportunity to discuss these things.

Re: Purgatory

Ed Hahnenberg — Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:38:16 -0000

Derowr...Yes, religion is yet having its way with me. What else is more important? Why is it that whenever I write about this religion or that, my reply queue attracts all sorts of off-target comments? If I have explained Purgatory inaccurately, show me where. If you want to convert me to your religion or sect with Judeo-Christian scripture, I will deal with the quotes. In your case, you are basing your reply on a quote from Jesus' prayer to His Father...commonly called the "Our Father," found in Matthew and Luke. Here is the Lukan version: He said to them, "When you pray, say: Father, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread and forgive us our sins for we ourselves forgive everyone in debt to us, and do not subject us to the final test."

Note Jesus prays for "your kingdom come" as a future event. I will grant you that when Jesus died on the cross, mankind was redeemed, subject to man's free will to accept or reject that redemption...and in that sense, the kingdom of God is here already.

Scripture is God's diamond. You can look at it in one light and see it one way. Look at it another, and see it differently. However when you add all the verses together, you get a substantive but incomplete picture of revelation. The tradition of clarification of dogma was something Jesus promised through the activity of the Holy Spirit.

Scripture has been used to justify slavery from Paul's writings, for example. There are five accounts of the Resurrection, and so forth. Quoting Scripture needs further clarification from the Tradition which followed it, otherwise there would still be only one Church of Christ and not 60,000 versions of it.

Re: Purgatory

Derowr — Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:47:33 -0000

Quite obvious that religion is yet having it's way with you ;-(

Some two thousand years past Truth testified, "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one"(iJN5:19).......

So why is it you have not taken heed unto The Call of The ONE and Only True Living G-D, Father(Creator) of ALL to "Come Out of her, MY people"?

HIS Call also includes the systems of theo'ry'logical religion that are all of this world and are yet having their way with you, causing you to serve 'time' in the prison that is 'd'evil's wicked world ;-(

Don't you realize that "THY Kingdom" HAS "Come"?

So "The Hope of Heaven" is a Living Reality Forever and today as well!

And thankfully Miracles do happen.......

Hope is there would be those who experience The Miracle that is receiving "a love of The Truth" for they will be translated into The Kingdom that HAS Come.......

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this world, for "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one" indeed and Truth.......